Matt Karash: Jordan Staal trade - Part 2: Jordan Staal expectations

35 goals and 70 points all while playing excellent in all 3 zones would be a realistic expectation IMO.

35 goals and 70 points all while playing excellent in all 3 zones would be a realistic expectation IMO.
- Gunner Staal

Agree. Not sure I'd consider Jordan a true number 1 center however. For all his improved play, he's still a below average passer in my opinion. I'll really be interested in watching him this season and how he adjusts to the new expectations. Wish him the best.......'cept against the Pens of course.

Agree. Not sure I'd consider Jordan a true number 1 center however. For all his improved play, he's still a below average passer in my opinion. I'll really be interested in watching him this season and how he adjusts to the new expectations. Wish him the best.......'cept against the Pens of course.
- madmike71

I'm curious to see his playmaking ability with legitimate top 6 talent. He has improved in that area.

35 goals and 70 points all while playing excellent in all 3 zones would be a realistic expectation IMO.
- Gunner Staal

i see it more around 25-30 goals and 60-65 points! now he might load up on assists playing with Eric and/or Skinner. But i think he is best suited for a 2nd line role.

So Staal is going to leave Pittsburgh and become a top scoring threat on a team with half the talent.

I loved Staal on the Pens but you're overvaluing him tremendously if you think he is going to be your franchises savior. He is going to be a very strong player as he was here and you'll love him but, do not start planning your parade just yet.

35 goals and 70 points all while playing excellent in all 3 zones would be a realistic expectation IMO.
- Gunner Staal

Probably very close to what will happen. They could try alot of different pairings on the top line. Really alot of unknowns because he's not played that top line consistently. Good luck to him, except when playing the Pens of course

So Staal is going to leave Pittsburgh and become a top scoring threat on a team with half the talent.

I loved Staal on the Pens but you're overvaluing him tremendously if you think he is going to be your franchises savior. He is going to be a very strong player as he was here and you'll love him but, do not start planning your parade just yet.
- Doogs

I don't think anyone is planning a parade or even mentioned him being our franchise savior. The only thing even remotely close was Matt saying he is hopeful that Jordan can play on the top lines without losing offense or defense.

Also, the team may have less talent, but his linemates won't. Jordan didn't play on your top two lines and never got any PP time. Comparing your 3rd line/PK duty talent to our 1st/2nd line + PK + PP talent are apples and oranges unless you were giving crosby/malkin 12 minutes a night.

Appreciate all the other Pens Fans encouragement though. Hope Sutter does great as your Staal replacement

I don't think anyone is planning a parade or even mentioned him being our franchise savior. The only thing even remotely close was Matt saying he is hopeful that Jordan can play on the top lines without losing offense or defense.

Also, the team may have less talent, but his linemates won't. Jordan didn't play on your top two lines and never got any PP time. Comparing your 3rd line/PK duty talent to our 1st/2nd line + PK + PP talent are apples and oranges unless you were giving crosby/malkin 12 minutes a night.

Appreciate all the other Pens Fans encouragement though. Hope Sutter does great as your Staal replacement
- T_Cane0

They all want him to stink it up. Love how everyone always throws in the obligatory "Best of luck to _______ (fill in the blank player a team just lost)."

So Staal is going to leave Pittsburgh and become a top scoring threat on a team with half the talent.

I loved Staal on the Pens but you're overvaluing him tremendously if you think he is going to be your franchises savior. He is going to be a very strong player as he was here and you'll love him but, do not start planning your parade just yet.
- Doogs

if that loaded talent on the Pens was on the wings, then I may agree with your thought process...but the truth is, if Crosby can't make some of those guys superstars, I ahve a hard time understanding how you think Staal could

As for franchise savior...no one is saying that...he is an addition that gives the Canes a very good top 6...that is an improvement any day of the week

They all want him to stink it up. Love how everyone always throws in the obligatory "Best of luck to _______ (fill in the blank player a team just lost)."
- BWithering

I agree that Jordan is not the stereotypical 1st line center. And in the mix and match NHL, he will probably see time with a variety of linemates.

But 2 reasons why I think Jordan does spend much of the season with Eric:

1) The Canes don't have a pure playmaking option. Dating back to 2006 (post Ron Francis basically) the Canes have received whatever playmaking they did get from the wing. The 2 big playmakers on separate lines and the power play on the Cup team were Whitney and Stillman. Eric has always been a shoot first center (which is fine). Closest thing the Canes have to a passer/playmaker type right now is Jokinen (who is 1 option for the other wing on the Staals line). If the Canes had a budget like other teams, a playmaking wing like Hemsky (who seems to be available every other month) would complement Eric Staal well. But with Jordan onboard and the need (IMO) to add another defenseman, there will not be any money for this.

2) The 1st line needs to be much better at winning 5-on-5. The downfall of the 1st third of 2011-12 was that Staal's line was losing night in and night out. When your top line is minus in their 20 minutes every night it is hard to win. This situation did improve as the season went on, but it is still an issue. The core forwards for the Canes have been similar for a couple years since Cole left again, so about every combination possible has been tried to build a solid 1st line with only temporary and modest successes. So it makes sense to take arguably your 2 best forwards and see if you can make a 1st line capable of winning most nights from them plus another.

I agree that Jordan is not the stereotypical 1st line center. And in the mix and match NHL, he will probably see time with a variety of linemates.

But 2 reasons why I think Jordan does spend much of the season with Eric:

1) The Canes don't have a pure playmaking option. Dating back to 2006 (post Ron Francis basically) the Canes have received whatever playmaking they did get from the wing. The 2 big playmakers on separate lines and the power play on the Cup team were Whitney and Stillman. Eric has always been a shoot first center (which is fine). Closest thing the Canes have to a passer/playmaker type right now is Jokinen (who is 1 option for the other wing on the Staals line). If the Canes had a budget like other teams, a playmaking wing like Hemsky (who seems to be available every other month) would complement Eric Staal well. But with Jordan onboard and the need (IMO) to add another defenseman, there will not be any money for this.

2) The 1st line needs to be much better at winning 5-on-5. The downfall of the 1st third of 2011-12 was that Staal's line was losing night in and night out. When your top line is minus in their 20 minutes every night it is hard to win. This situation did improve as the season went on, but it is still an issue. The core forwards for the Canes have been similar for a couple years since Cole left again, so about every combination possible has been tried to build a solid 1st line with only temporary and modest successes. So it makes sense to take arguably your 2 best forwards and see if you can make a 1st line capable of winning most nights from them plus another.
- CarolinaMatt63

Speaking of Ray Whitney .... JR says he is still looking to add another forward piece. What are the chances that Recyclable Rutherford shows up again and offers the Wizard? Whitney - J. Staal - E. Staal top line anyone?

I came at this the wrong way... I honestly wish J.Staal the best. He was one of my favorite players. He is a great addition. I didn't like how he and his agent handled this whole situation, but that doesn't take away from his on ice deal.

My point was that he did get top line ice time with Sid and Geno out of the line up for time periods. While he played well, it was when Geno returned that the team picked it up.

I hope you enjoy him in a Canes uni as much as we did here in the Pens sweater. I look forward to participating in his standing ovation after his video tribute in November when the Canes come to town.

Sorry for coming off as a douche, it wasn't intended.

What would be the Canes Top 2 lines assuming that Jordan centers Eric on the 1st line ?

What would be the Canes Top 2 lines assuming that Jordan centers Eric on the 1st line ?
- MadCap2008

Most likely ...

Tlusty - Staal - Staal

Skinner - Jokinen - Ruutu

Most likely ...

Tlusty - Staal - Staal

Skinner - Jokinen - Ruutu
- BWithering

Thanks ! If I were a fan, I think I'd rather see the Staal's centering the 1st and 2nd line. Obviously they can adjust accordingly as the season progresses.

What would be the Canes Top 2 lines assuming that Jordan centers Eric on the 1st line ?
- MadCap2008

My guess (if no other top-6 F is signed) is Staal, Staal, Tlusty
Skinner, Jokinen, Ruutu ...that said, i wouldn't be surprised if JR gets another guy
like Gaustad, Roy, Parenteau, or Whitney for the top-6!!

I'd love to have Ray back. Eric thrived when he was on this wing.

I'd love to have Ray back. Eric thrived when he was on this wing.
- ward30nhl

Definitely agree!! and i don't think we need another D-man-watch for Sanguinetti, and/or Murphy to make the team!!

I didn't get a chance to comment on the first blog about the trade itself, so I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here:

From the perspective of an impartial observer, Pittsburgh's laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

They get Sutter and the 8th overall for a guy who had no intent on playing in Pitts and wanted to go play with one of his bros.

I can't help but think the Canes should have held out on this trade for awhile. Clearly, the Pens wanted to fee up cap room to go after Suter and or Parise. Chances are, as July 1 approached, they would have asked for less and less.

Considering there was only one other team that Jordan was going to sign long term with next year, I think the Canes could have held out. The Rangers always want to make a huge splash and are going hard after Nash, so I doubt their interest in Staal was that huge considering they wouldn't have been able to fit them both in.

Worst case, Carolina (clearly not contenders this year anyways), could have simply waited till next year and scooped him up as a free agent.

(There's NO WAY a guy who turned down 10 years is going to change his mind in Pitts. He's already got a cup and he clearly wanted a bigger role/to play with his bro).

All in all, it seems to me like Carolina (a team who has a self imposed cap) is getting rid of cheap prospects for a guy who's going to command a heafty salary next year. On top of this, the dude is super injury prone.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

Jordan will develop into a point a game player in Carolina. Playing 24 minutes a night will put his average at just under or a little over a point a game this year. Even if he doesn't hit the 70 point mark this year, Canes fans don't have to run to the hills, Jordan is too big, too strong on the puck and too determined to fail imo.

I didn't get a chance to comment on the first blog about the trade itself, so I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here:

From the perspective of an impartial observer, Pittsburgh's laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

They get Sutter and the 8th overall for a guy who had no intent on playing in Pitts and wanted to go play with one of his bros.

I can't help but think the Canes should have held out on this trade for awhile. Clearly, the Pens wanted to fee up cap room to go after Suter and or Parise. Chances are, as July 1 approached, they would have asked for less and less.

Considering there was only one other team that Jordan was going to sign long term with next year, I think the Canes could have held out. The Rangers always want to make a huge splash and are going hard after Nash, so I doubt their interest in Staal was that huge considering they wouldn't have been able to fit them both in.

Worst case, Carolina (clearly not contenders this year anyways), could have simply waited till next year and scooped him up as a free agent.

(There's NO WAY a guy who turned down 10 years is going to change his mind in Pitts. He's already got a cup and he clearly wanted a bigger role/to play with his bro).

All in all, it seems to me like Carolina (a team who has a self imposed cap) is getting rid of cheap prospects for a guy who's going to command a heafty salary next year. On top of this, the dude is super injury prone.

Just doesn't make sense to me.
- Charliebox

I don't know where you get that.......He's had some freak injuries the past 2 years (PK Subban stepping on his foot in the 2010 playoffs, and then 2 days after he comes back from that, he takes a shot off his hand in practice,) but his first 4 seasons, he missed 1 game, thats 327 out of 328 games played.

Jordan will develop into a point a game player in Carolina. Playing 24 minutes a night will put his average at just under or a little over a point a game this year. Even if he doesn't hit the 70 point mark this year, Canes fans don't have to run to the hills, Jordan is too big, too strong on the puck and too determined to fail imo.
- CanuckYou

I don't see him being a point per game player. He is a great player, don't get me wrong, but his style of play is not inducive of racking up points. He will be a solid 60-70 point player, who will be mentioned in the Selke race every year.

Since this is a Hurricanes board I'd like to know how good was Bryan Allen last year. How much is he asking this year? What are his weaknesses and strenghts?

I don't see him being a point per game player. He is a great player, don't get me wrong, but his style of play is not inducive of racking up points. He will be a solid 60-70 point player, who will be mentioned in the Selke race every year.
- cap1681

I think the thing you're not taking into consideration is the likelyhood Jordan will BE playing with Eric (on the 1st line) quite a bit, and if not w/ eric, then with Skinner!
He's gonna get a lot of assists (BOOK-IT)!!!
In addition he'll see quite a bit of PP and PK time!
We're talking a lot of ice-time!
And finally he's just 23 (going on 24), A KID!!
The sky's the limit!